Interview: A Grandmother's Notes on Love

Join me in sitting down with my beloved grandmother, Virginia, to discuss friendships, romance, literature, and more.

There is nothing quite like the love of a grandparent. I was lucky enough to be loved deeply by mine, four absolutely amazing individuals. While my paternal grandparents passed away earlier in my life, I always knew that they treasured their grandchildren in the most special way. Since then, I have been able to learn about their lives through stories passed on to their children and memories that were thoughtfully preserved.

My mom’s parents have played large roles in my life and I have gotten to know them in my way, many times, through hours-long conversations that started with simple questions I asked them; sometimes about their childhood, other times about their hobbies, and sometimes simply about what they’re up to that day. I have always been a curious person and they have spoilt me by allowing me to indulge in that inquisitive nature and inspired me through the conversations that follow.

My grandparents have each led very interesting and fulfilling lives, and I have always admired their distinct ability to appreciate one another for exactly who they are, knowing the years of ups and downs that have led them to becoming the people they are today. Even trying to grasp the concept of a near sixty-five year long relationship is difficult for me, but it is made simpler by witnessing the love, respect, and commitment they have for one another to this day.

I told my grandmother when we spoke, she is the reason I believe in unconditional love, and it goes far beyond the romantic meaning of the word. Before we get to that, let’s rewind to the beginning of the conversation, which started with her voice, like music to my ears, with:

Virginia: Hey there girlfriend!

After we briefly discussed our dinner plans for the evening and joked around about household chores, I jumped in with a truly refreshing and unexpected question about her general thoughts on Valentine’s Day.

Virginia: I'm pretty indifferent about it. You know, I think in the past, when I was young, maybe even before marriage, Valentine’s Day was a time when, if you didn't get a Valentine from your boyfriend, it was a real downer. But, you know, Crosslyn, when you've been married nearly 65 years, you have a completely different attitude about stuff. I've never been one to expect a Valentine gift at all. I'm gonna get Paul Valentine this year. I’m going to make him a chocolate pie.

Me: Oh, what a good gift. I mean, I know how he is about pie and I can't think of anything he would want more. On the topic of gifts, has he ever given you a special Valentine gift?

Virginia: He has given me many thoughtful gifts. Like, one time he made me a bookmark for Valentine’s Day and that was a big deal to me. It was leather and he put a heart on it. I thought about that this afternoon when I knew you were going to call me because I have no idea what's happened to it. I don't think I ever got an extravagant Valentine gift. But I’ve never cared much for that.

Me: That’s so sweet. And you love to read, so he knew it was something you would use all the time.

Virginia: That’s true. That’s kind of who he is. He’s very sentimental that way.

Me: So when it comes to your love languages, how you give and receive love, what does that look like for you and how does it play out in your relationships, whether it’s with him or other people in your life?

Virginia: Well, for me, when I think about the word ‘love"‘, it's a noun. When I think about it as a verb, I'm reminded that it's always an active verb because there's always a receiver. Right? And it's interesting that you called and we were talking about this because the pastor was preaching on Sunday about love. And he said, what we have to remember, is that love is not an emotion. It's a condition. Being in love is not just an emotion. Sometimes it's not even an emotion. That is lust, more temporary, fleeting, but not love. One thing that I think about when I think about love, is that when I was probably, oh, wow, it started when I was eight, maybe nine years old, but we used to always go to the library, there was a public library with when I was a little girl, and I would check out a books. And mother and daddy gave me this book one year for my birthday, because they knew I loved it. I wish I still had it. Heidi, have you ever heard of the book?

Me: Of course, yes.

Virginia: Oh! I read that book to you and Claudia—parts of it.

Me: You did.

Virginia: Yeah. She loved her grandfather, she loved to go up the mountain to see her grandfather. And I think that's kind of how I began to understand what love is. It's just being with people, listening to the grandfather, listening to the children.

As we talked more about Heidi, she made her way to another literary reference that has always been near to her heart, The Call of The Wild by Jack London.

Virginia: Buck was the object of this man's love. He had also been the object of abuse. His former owner had tried to force him by pain and all sorts of things to do what he wanted the dog to do. But when Buck had a new master, and he was entered in the Iditarod race, his owner leaned in and he said, “As you love me, Buck.” I think that's the epitome of love, because we do, we go the extra mile. You know, when you really love somebody, it's not about you. It's about them.

Me: And you have a lifetime of experiencing so many different kinds of love, and learning from all of it, that’s something that really strikes me.

Virginia: When I think about it that way, about the different kinds of love, I think about Agape love and how it is the hardest, because in the Bible, Jesus is saying to love your neighbor in the same way that I love you, and that’s a pretty tall order. We are told that the greatest love is, is that which we're willing to lay down our life for another. And if there was a question of me and you, me and Claudia, me and Caleb, me and your mom, I would never stop and think well, am I willing to give my life? Heaven’s yes, I'm willing. I've lived a long life, and I've had a wonderful life. And if I could save your life by giving mine, there's no doubt that I would. For me, that’s what Love is rooted in.

She reflected on how she always tried to show love through education and caring for students she had in her classroom throughout the years, and we chased a few rabbit trails before we ended up on the topic of vulnerability and the idea that loving someone truly means giving them the power to hurt you. I asked about times in her relationship when there was an element of being hurt and how she navigated that throughout the years.

Virginia: In a situation like with Paul and me in a marital relationship, there are gonna be times when you're gonna be mad is thunder and feel like you want to take his head off. But then you realize that's probably not a good solution. That's when you take the long walk. Walk out the back door and you walk up and down the road or out to the pasture or whatever. You gotta work through and pray through your own hurt. And then you work it out together.

Me: When it comes to working things out and problem solving, are your styles different and how do you work together and communicate your needs to one another?

Virginia: I am very pro active in everything. He has a tendency to be a thinker. So he spends time thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking through things where as I have a tendency to be proactive, and jump in and try to take care of it. But it takes both kinds. So I think that's one of the key ingredients in that we have each of us recognize that we handle things differently. Equally well. But yeah, in different ways. And there are some issues that you may never agree on. But you learn that you can work together without total agreement where that's concerned. Most of them those things are non important issues anyway. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree, and that can save you from a lot of pointless fights.

Me: That’s a difficult lesson for a lot of people to learn.

Virginia: It’s certainly not easy. But, I think it becomes easier over time, like with us, our love has increased in sincerity and grown in strength. But thats the thing, I don’t think real love fades at all, I think it changes. We are stronger now and I would be totally lost without Paul, and he would be totally lost without me. It’s like somebody taking your leg off and you don’t know how to hop.

I was starting to get emotional, so I found a directed the conversation to the topic of “Galentine’s” and friendship. She has had many meaningful friendships, and I asked her how she has made and maintained those and how that kind of love has contributed value to her life.

Virginia: I don't think there's anything in the world more valuable than having a close friend. I have lost some of my dearest friends, and it’s heartbreaking. But having people who you trust, and who can depend on you, means a lot. True friends can tell you something in a corrective way and it never hurts because you know its honest and from love. I think it's important for women to have adult female friends. Yeah, very important. If I get kind of off on a tangent about something, and I'm kind of getting off base, then, my friend Mary Johnson is the very first person that would say to me, I think you need to rethink that, right? And consider these two things, these three things are whatever they are as alternative choices. And we all need that from time to time.

Me: Some of us more than others, perhaps. (said jokingly) One thing you share with your friends is certain hobbies, and I feel like that is also a great way of showing love to yourself. You have a lot of hobbies and so does Paul; has that been an important part of your relationship dynamic and ability to maintain your sense of self?

Virginia: I think that's probably one of the reasons that Paul and I have maintained a peaceful relationship is that he has his hobbies and I have mine. And then we make the choice to spend quality time together even through those hobbies. Paul has always loved to fish. There were plenty of times when I would go fishing with him. Not because I like to fish but because I like to be with him. And there were times when he helps me, like with the Santas I make, for instance. Sure, there were other things he would rather do, but he helped me build those bases for the Santas because it's something I was interested in and he enjoyed being out there in the garage, hammering and fixing and just being with me. And when it comes to my crafts and the things I love making, I’ve questioned my motives. In other words, why do I do all of this sewing? Do I make all these purses? Do I make good chocolate pies and take them to my friends? so that I will be loved? I don’t think so. I can honestly say to you, I do it because I love them. It doesn’t matter to me that much to be accepted to do it for that reason. Of course we all want to be accepted and loved back, but doing something because I love someone has always been enough motivation for me.

Me: That’s so important, and I feel like many women are taught to strive for perfection and acceptance and it can get to a point where it ends up doing harm, whether its in a relationship or just personally. So it’s good to have that self awareness.

Virginia: I think that perhaps has been an issue with me and striving for perfection when I know that it's a goal I'll never reach. So far as my relationship with Paul, every single day that I've been married to him, I've wanted him to be proud of me, not as a pretty dolly to hang on to his arm, but because of who I am. So I've worked hard at being the kind of person he would be proud. When I first met Paul's grandmother, she put my face in her hands, and she said, “Oh my dear, I've been praying for you since the day my grandson was born, and I see in you the very individual that will complete who he is.” Wow. Isn't that amazing?

Me: I mean, that’s kinda crazy. I think it comes down to walking the line between someone believing in you and challenging you to become all that you can be and keeping you accountable for that, and then avoiding being the recipient of someone else’s expectations and the weight that can carry.

Virginia: It matters that it is driven by love and respect. It’s funny, playing bridge taught me a great deal, because I would see people say things to their wives like “well that was a dumb move,” and embarrass one another in public. Paul and I would never do that. Even if I do think it’s a dumb move, I wait until we are alone to ask, “hey why did you do that?” Too many people are willing to quickly and thoughtlessly put someone else down.

Me: What are some other little ways he has shown you love throughout the years that have helped carry you through decades of marriage?

Virginia: Paul is very good about saying “My goodness, Virginia, you still look like you did the day we met, looking nice and trim.” And more now, he’ll say “I just can't believe how you've maintained your health and your strength and your activity,” because most of my friends are using a walker. So, those things change over the years but he always makes it a point to compliment me and make me feel good. And it’s as important to me as it was when I was 20 years old. And it's important to him, he dressed up the other day and I told him, “You just look so nice, so sharp.” And we both always mean it. We also really value one another’s in an intellectual way. One way I feel like I have shown my love to him over the years is by building his confidence and helping him realize how truly brilliant and articulate he is. He did not used to believe that about himself.

Me: You two sound like a love story from a movie, but more honest and just overall better.

Virginia: I was thinking about movies when you asked earlier, and I thought about Steel Magnolias. Have you ever seen it?

Me: I haven’t, but I’ll add it to the list.

Virginia: It has some great lines. But overall, it emphasizes the strength of women. I think women have a unique ability to be strong in the face of adversity that sometimes men don't have. And then the relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship, or just a friendship relationship, women always seem to help the, sometimes, dim-witted males understand and get through these things. Maybe don’t quote me on that. But they are, sometimes, right?

Me: They are, yes.

Virginia:  I don't know where the world would be without women, honestly. I really don’t.

I asked about books, a topic we both love.

Virginia: I've never been a romance book reader, you know, all of those Judy Blume and all of that kind of stuff. I haven't read many of them. And those that I have read, they did not stick with me. I think that one of the most valuable things that I have learned about love through literature is from To Kill a Mockingbird. How Atticus Finch jumped right in the middle of social injustice, because that's what he did as an attorney. But through every single step of that, he wanted to teach Scout what social injustice was so that Scout would not be influenced because he loved him and didn't want him to grow up to be like the people that were so against the man who was on trial. And that stuck with me. There’s no telling how many times I've read To Kill a Mockingbird. And there are lots of lessons from it, one of the greatest being, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

She proceeded to tell a story about me and Claudia from our childhood that frankly doesn’t reflect well on me, so I’m reluctant to repeat it. Needless to say, my grandmother was instrumental in helping me understand that the golden rule does not mean: pushing your sister to the floor because she pushed you and justifying this behavior with the golden rule by claiming thats what you thought she must have wanted. Lesson learned.

As we wrapped up our conversation, we waxed nostalgic about the days of letter writing and the lost art of penmanship, and made preliminary plans for a girls’ trip before our classic sign-off:

“Love you to the moon and back.”

[call ends]

If you have made it to this point, thank you for taking the time to read about a conversation that meant so much to me and served as a reminder of just how fortunate I am to not only be able to learn about, but experience love from someone with such a vast capacity for it and heart for others like the one she possess. It is also a reminder that there are people in each of our lives with vaults filled with a lifetime’s worth of stories, waiting for the right moment to be unlocked. Sometimes asking what seem like simple questions can lead to hearing answers we didn’t even know we were looking for.